Curse

Undead Preacher · Jan 03, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcp

Running insidious parasite + ss with no cover hex for UW 2man......how do u manage to kill smites, has to be tedious even with 2 man necro team. One lil doze off is all it takes to lose the window of opportunity to plant a SS on a smite along with cover hex.

IP + SS vs Aatxe=bad if theres a lone aatxe left standing out of the pack and your low on juice.

P.S. how can either of you rez if you both use rebirth for 55 hp'rs?

DID you read my build.... how do u get rebirth outta res sig????
And empathy+SS works great with 1 on 1 situations, which happen rarely but they do happen!

Kcp · Jan 03, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Relax guy, I wasnt even referring to that old tired SS/Sv build that everyone knows about

The reply was to zaxxon, I am interested in why and how effecient his 2 man runs go. I really could care less about a SS/SV build, cuz i dont need it, but im sure you already knew that undead.

Notice you still havent nailed the Solo aspect yet, keep it up you'll get it. And AtB for 2 man isnt needed still takes 3 SS's to drop a group

Wasted nrg IMO to use AtB....thats 2/3rds the nrg needed to get off another SS

zaxxon1982 · Jan 03, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcp

Running insidious parasite + ss with no cover hex for UW 2man......how do u manage to kill smites, has to be tedious even with 2 man necro team. One lil doze off is all it takes to lose the window of opportunity to plant a SS on a smite along with cover hex.

IP + SS vs Aatxe=bad if theres a lone aatxe left standing out of the pack and your low on juice.

P.S. how can either of you rez if you both use rebirth for 55 hp'rs?

Haven't studied the efficiency in detail. From a gut feel standpoint it seems better than the 55 monk + SS/SV necro combination, but I do acknowledge the possibility that I simply have more fun doing it this way (making the time seem to pass more quickly, but not actually pass more quickly).

The key on all your questions is that the 2 teammates do not both play the 55 build at the same time. Obviously the attributes and skills have to be set up for it, but only the player tanking at the moment need wear the runed armor (except Superior Curses, natch) and maintain the 3 enchantments.

On to the specifics. For smites, we use called targets and call out the spells we use to coordinate attacks vs smites. The tank lays down the cover and the nuke puts SS on the same target. You actually get better execution this way because there's less time between the hexes getting on the target, lessening the likelihood of a luckily timed smite hex. As for IP + SS being bad versus Aatxe, refer to the paragraph about maintaining only 1 true tank at a time. Since the nuker isn't maintaining enchantments, he can handle the SS needs and (and even help keep up PS/breeze if necessary) while the tank keeps IP on any straggling survivors. Energy is a total non-issue for this group.

To your question about rez'ing the 55HP'r, the process is: 1) the dead tank removes all runes and replaces with normal armor. 2) Rez. 3) Have the other player switch to the tank build (if not already done). 4) Regen. Hopefully by the time the new tank dies the DP will be gone and this process can be repeated. Even if not, however, removing one piece of runed armor puts HP at 58 with 15% DP.

BTW, steps 3 and 4 above are actually more complicated than they may look. You want to get full energy recovery from the rebirth before you put on any enchantments (to maximize pips), and likewise get full energy recovery after each enchantment before putting on the next. Regenning 70 energy (40 from rebirth plus 30 for enchants) with 1 pip = no fun for anyone.

Hope that helps. I suppose it's a little inefficient from an inventory standpoint to carry 4 extra scar patterns and an extra off hand item, but the ability to switch from nuker to rez'er to tank and back again all with the option to solo a group if need be seems, to me, more than worth it.

Fade Away · Jan 04, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

DID you read my build.... how do u get rebirth outta res sig????
And empathy+SS works great with 1 on 1 situations, which happen rarely but they do happen!

I still don't understand why you dont use Insideous Parasite instead of Empathy.

It does more dmg.

Undead Preacher · Jan 04, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fade Away

I still don't understand why you dont use Insideous Parasite instead of Empathy.

It does more dmg.

*10 energy cost compared to 15*
IF I HAD 15 ENERGY TO SPARE I WOULD CAST ANOTHER SS

Undead Preacher · Jan 04, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I'de also like to point out for all necros new to making this build...
Villnars Claw and Villnars Glove are NOT necessary...

I sold them and use these for this build:
20% recharge collecters Wand
20/20 Collecters Offhand

Sol_Vie · Jan 04, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

Not true... I see 43-dmg spiteful's pop up every other fight since I'm casting so many SS so often, especially with arcane echo. If you're talking about a Nec/Monk, then you're right, you won't see L19 hexes as often as a Nec/Mesmer.

The numbers speak for themselves... if you want to prove why AtB is weak, please demonstrate why with quantitative, non-anecdotal evidence. Alternative skill suggestions are fine, but please back these up with raw numeric data related to damage and energy consumed. L16 SS at 29 sec duration = 1073 dmg. L18 SS at 31 sec duration = 1271 dmg. Net gain = +16% damage, which is a good chunk of damage for 10 energy. That's not even counting L19 curses (+20% dmg).

Also, there's also no reason to use BR with aatxe's, since it's a melee mob that triggers Bonetti's energy gain. BR is mainly used for colds (if your monk runs dry), and post-fight fast recovery. None of the monks I go with ever complain about receiving BR casts.

EDIT: The bottom line is that speed kills. The faster you kill, the faster you get ecto. If you prefer a leisurely kill pace, that's fine too, but I like tuning my builds to be the best possible. I didn't even select my entire skill bar... another player accustomed to playing both nec's and 55-monks made a few suggestions, including AtB and Desicrate. I used to go without AtB, but now that I've seen the difference, I won't be dropping AtB any time soon (at least for UW smite runs).

Usually Monk/Wars after tanking darknesses + coldfires, since Bonetti's doesn't net energy against missle attacks, and darknesses use "fear me" to drain energy.

Good call. When I first started using SS I loved it. Then I remembered AtB. When I started using it I noticed a pretty big boost in performance related to kill speed. A lot of people don't take notice of the fact that towards the end of the game defense is not what's important. The faster you deal more damage, the better. Even if the damage is minimal, it helps. With SS and AtB the damage is not minimal. Sure it's only adding 4-6 damage on every attack but when there's a group of 5-10 that extra damage is so much more detrimental.

jaibas17 · Jan 05, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

undead preacher look at my build and check it out

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=103078

works really well

Pyrea · Jan 05, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Very nice in total. Will post just to keep track

Undead Preacher · Jan 05, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaibas17

undead preacher look at my build and check it out

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=103078

works really well

I find that your "other" curses skills besides SS are a waste of energy!

lord_shar · Jan 05, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

I'de also like to point out for all necros new to making this build...
Villnars Claw and Villnars Glove are NOT necessary...

I sold them and use these for this build:
20% recharge collecters Wand
20/20 Collecters Offhand

So far, the best gear I've found for this build are

1 - max dmg truncheon, +5 energy while health > 50%, any casting or skill recharge mod. The extra energy really helps take full advantage of soul reaping energy refills.

2 - Vilnar's Glove. The 20% +1 skill boost is usually better than the 20% insta-cast since SS requires time to inflict damage. The 20% casting speed boost does not alter SS DPS (damage per second), while +1 curse skills does (+5% gain when it activates).

3 - Scars armor - same as #1 above

Ajantis · Jan 05, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaxxon1982

To your question about rez'ing the 55HP'r, the process is: 1) the dead tank removes all runes and replaces with normal armor. 2) Rez. 3) Have the other player switch to the tank build (if not already done). 4) Regen. Hopefully by the time the new tank dies the DP will be gone and this process can be repeated. Even if not, however, removing one piece of runed armor puts HP at 58 with 15% DP.

Too bad you can't swap your equipment when you're dead huh?

Undead Preacher · Jan 05, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajantis

Too bad you can't swap your equipment when you're dead huh?

AGREED, Equipment changes canNOT take place when u are dead, only res sig will work!

sno · Jan 05, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

AGREED, Equipment changes canNOT take place when u are dead, only res sig will work!

Vengence+rebirth. Nuff said.

Undead Preacher · Jan 05, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

Vengence+rebirth. Nuff said.

For you to bring Vengence and Rebirth that means your secondary is MONK... in case you didn't look at build its N/Me Echo SS/SV...... Nuff said

sno · Jan 05, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

You did say "only res sig will work" implying that you were comparing res sig to the other forms of bringing back the dead. If you're only talking about n/me's, then of course only res sig will work, as you have no access to anything else. A bit redundant don't you think?

Undead Preacher · Jan 05, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

You did say "only res sig will work" implying that you were comparing res sig to the other forms of bringing back the dead. If you're only talking about n/me's, then of course only res sig will work, as you have no access to anything else. A bit redundant don't you think?

well this thread is about this build....so bringing up rebirth and vengence are a little off topic

Undead Preacher · Jan 05, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I'm also taking someones advice and adding in an interupt, not sure which to take out as of yet, most likely empathy seeing I only use it for 1 on 1 situations!

Fade Away · Jan 06, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

*10 energy cost compared to 15*
IF I HAD 15 ENERGY TO SPARE I WOULD CAST ANOTHER SS

For 1 on 1? You can't stack SS.

I'm just saying, 5 energy isn't a big deal, it's not gonna take that long to regen, so unless empathy lasts longer than 20 seconds I don't see why not use Incidious Parasite.

Guess it's just my opinion then, I think IP works better.

Undead Preacher · Jan 06, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fade Away

For 1 on 1? You can't stack SS.

I'm just saying, 5 energy isn't a big deal, it's not gonna take that long to regen, so unless empathy lasts longer than 20 seconds I don't see why not use Incidious Parasite.

Guess it's just my opinion then, I think IP works better.

Never said SS stacks with 1 on 1..... And IP does do more dmg... but not alot more... I just prefer Empathy.... Its also nice for when 55 only pulls 2 aataxes... I cast SS on Both and Empathy on both.... I just find with Arcane Echo Costing 15 energy, and SS costing 15 energy.... the last thing I want in my skill set is another 15 energy skill..... I used to have IP in this build... but when I compare the two... I get alot more use out of Empathy!